Selfish Christians
Jesus said the healthy don’t need a doctor. When asked about his mission, he said it was to seek and save the lost. His reputation as a friend of sinners was not compliment.
I am pro-discipleship. I am for growing as a Christian. I’m for theological discussions and Biblical exegesis and all kinds of other big words. And My ESV Study Bible can beat up your Slimline NLT. But somewhere along the way, we’ve forgotten that the process of making disciples starts with someone who is not a disciple. There are too many Christians and churches only interested in making disciples out of people who are already Christians.
We couch our refusal to share our faith or invite people to church by using words like “deep”. If you are worried that Oak Leaf Church is not deep enough for you, then let me confirm your assumptions. We are not. It’s not that we don’t like you. It’s just that you’re healthy, and you don’t need a doctor. We’ll “disciple” you, but we are not going to keep spoon-feeding you.
Christians today have a ridiculous amount of information and resources at their disposal. You can listen and watch sermons from amazing preachers from all over the world. The Internet can deliver articles, blogs, and charts on all kinds of Biblical topics. If you are capable of feeding yourself, and refuse to do so, then you are simply selfish. Some of the most selfish Christians in the world are sitting in living rooms they call missional communities, while the world around them spirals out of control.
If you only care about growing in your faith, but never sharing your faith, then you are a selfish Christian.
Resources don’t create relationships. Discipleship happens with people walking along side others who may not be as far along the Journey. And with those who have yet to begin.
Is your “most selfish Christian…missional communities” line based on actual research, or is it, in point of fact, a reaction to critique (rather than criticism). It comes across as simply a cheap shot from a megachurch leader.
My experience is that few leaders in the church in the west have actually spoon-fed anyone. Actual discipleship (and do remember Jesus command at the end of Matthew to go and make disciples, please) would appear to be low on the priority list of too many leaders building large churches.
The goal of discipleship at my church is to produce people who DO stuff; not only know stuff.
Michael, I get your point and agree. To me it sounded like you were saying – “don’t neglect evangelism in favor of discipleship because the two are inseperable.”
My experience is that many church leaders in America actually DO spoon-feed people in their churches – very often in smaller congregations who see their pastor as the ‘hired help’ who is supposed to do it all for them.
I think I understand (sort of) what you are saying in this post Michael. I agree that we should focus on evangelizing the lost as well as discipling the saved. However your post ignores the role of community in discipleship. The picture you paint is one where church is basically a conversion station and then everyone is on their own for spritual growth. I have a problem matching up that church model with the NT.
“Selfish Christian” sounds a little harsh when we all fall short, but that doesn’t excuse the fact that we are, indeed, all selfish.
I agree, though… sitting, waiting, and trying to grow in faith as a disciple with other believers, without actively seeking the lost, seems way backwards.
I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but sharing my faith with others helps my own faith. Maybe I’m selfish for thinking so, but there’s just something about sharing with others that forces us to organize our individual belief to a point of being able to build on a solid foundation. It changes everything.
Those terrible missional communities. Sitting in living rooms. They should be sitting in megachurches instead.
Talking about discipleship and evangelism as if they need to be compromised with one another says “we have a shallow understanding of the Gospel.” Because when someone’s Gospel isn’t simultaneously discipling believers deeply and proclaiming Jesus to unbelievers, it’s probably not real. It is suicide to suggest that Christians don’t need the same doctor that unbelievers do.
The missional comment is ignorant. I’ll assume you have specific examples in mind that don’t match up with my experience.
There’s a very questionable paradigm at work here.
Funnily enough our ‘missional’ group is concentrating on discipleship and people are realising that reaching out is a part of it, without us needing to tell them what to do. We’re growing because people want to know more.
@bill: I’m not really a mega-church leader, but thanks for the compliment.
@clay: yes, this post was intentionally one sided. Discipleship and community are very important. As is worship.
@nate: I could give you lots of examples of Christians I know who want to go deeper in their faith, live in community with other Christians, and study the Bible, but do nothing to share their faith.
@all: evangelism and discipleship are very connected. we need to be serious about discipleship and community. but we cannot use that as an excuse not to invite people to church or share our faith.
Discipleship and evangelism aren’t just “connected”, one (evangelism) is a direct outflow of the other (discipleship). If our churches are full of selfish christians who are not sharing their faith, that indicates a problem with our discipleship. Nowhere in the NT do we see that the primary function of the church is to evangelize the lost, so if you are going to skew your post to make a point, you have skewed in the wrong direction.
Clay, I believe that is the exact point Michael is trying to make, with the exception of our primary function not being to evangelize the lost.
Our primary function is precisely to reach the lost for Christ. Our individual duty, as a Christ-follower, is to seek discipleship… well, duty and deepest desire…
Discipleship is not lessons on how to take better notes during a sermon, so we can grow. It’s explaining the parables through a lens of experience. Our whole life is that of a disciple… everywhere and all the time. The sermons, formal or informal, are for the people who have seen and heard of the great works done in Jesus’ name, but wonders “Who is that Man?”
Bradley, we probably have some differences in our ecclesiology, and this is probably not the place to get into that too much. I’ll just say that I think you would have a hard time justifying with scripture that the primary function of the ekklesia is to evangelize the lost. I’m not saying it isn’t a function, but it is more of a by-product than a direct role.
Clay, You could be right that we may differ a bit. And, Michael is a gracious enough host for allowing comments at all.
Perhaps I’m not qualified to assist you with questions about the primary role we play in the world. I am simply a person that was lost and now seeking God. I guess that makes me about qualified enough to show others that my life is getting better and better, even in the midst of trials. So, I’m embracing that as my primary function till lead otherwise. For answers to questions that I do not know, I invite people to church.
Clay said…
Nowhere in the NT do we see that the primary function of the church is to evangelize the lost……
Are you kidding me? Read your NT again. The the Great Commission includes and encompasses evangelism. There is no Great Commission without evangelism. There are no disciples unless they have been evangelized first!
Furthermore, the parable of the shepherd leaving the 99 sheep to find the one lost sheep demonstrates (and validates) the absolute importance of evangelism.
The Shepherd leaves the sheep… to find the lost… let that sink in for a moment.
I couldn’t agee more with the idea that sitting and being fed (whether it is in an auditorium or a living room) is for babies. The whole idea of sending missional communities, in its pure form, however, is a key remedy for the problem, not the ultimate example of the problem. (Check out Neil Cole’s organic church material, for example, which is about as evangelistic / outreach-oriented as anything out there today.)
So much misunderstanding still exists within the Kingdom. If only we could understand each other, then we would all get where we’re going so much easier.
Michael: I sounded standoffish in my first response. Apologies. A couple issues irritate me easily, and your post concerns one of them. You said:
“@nate: I could give you lots of examples of Christians I know who want to go deeper in their faith, live in community with other Christians, and study the Bible, but do nothing to share their faith”
Here is where I see a paradigm flaw: Faith in what, exactly? A Jesus that doesn’t compel people to proclaim the gospel is a fake Jesus. I don’t doubt what you’re talking about happens. I just question the purity of a gospel that produces some sort of “deeper walk” that doesn’t include overflowing with Good News. Likewise a prescription of “add more evangelism” suggests a mistrust for the message itself. When fear or apathy prevents sharing one’s faith, it’s because the Gospel hasn’t taken hold in that area. Is there a way you can draw a visible line for Christians showing how believing Jesus expels the fear that prevents faith-sharing? If that’s what you intended, I commend you! Because “pastor so and so disapproves of Christians who don’t evangelize” definitely GENERATES fear, not dispels it. More commitments to the laundry list of Christian duties usually stifle genuine Jesus-excitement. And when at least part of the idea for evangelism is “invite people to church,” you guarantee that people will grow apathetic towards sharing, because church really doesn’t remain that exciting forever. It also communicates that Jesus+church is what people are in need of, which is anti-Gospel. The whole idea suggests that Jesus is built on the rock of the Church, rather than vice versa. There’s really no picture in the NT that I’m aware of where disciples entice unbelievers into their little enclaves where they are then evangelized. “Invite people to church” is definitely nowhere, and it’s often just a consumeristic veil for enhancing a church’s profile and influence rather than Jesus’ fame. Thus, butts in seats don’t indicate we are producing anything worthwhile or Biblical. In the NT, on the other hand, I see our predecessors, burning with the Gospel, sending forth into the streets and marketplaces, proclaiming Jesus’ name and work.
I’m not trying to be hypercritical. I usually keep my mouth shut. You may be getting it all right and I’m just misreading it. But in an age where Gospel-lessness and Jesus-optional church models are the norm, I feel like there’s a good reason to examine these things.
Nate
@Nate: My post is more in line with the first part of your comment. a true life of faith, and a life of true discipleship will result in evangelism, whether it’s intentional living, inviting people to church or a dozen other formats of spreading the gospel.
as to the second part of your comment, we must understand that we are not living in a new testament culture. much of what we do as an organized church is a-biblical…it’s the result of the world in which we live.
In North Georgia, where I live, I believe Christians that are following Jesus and who are a part of a Gospel-centered church should naturally want to invite people to that church, in the spirit of “Going into the highways and compelling them to come.” We should invite people to come and see Jesus, whether that’s a conversation about faith over coffee or an invitation to participate in a worship service.
I’m not saying evangelism isn’t important, I’m just saying it’s not the primary function of the ekklesia (the gathering of believers in a geographical location). Point me to one place in Paul’s letters where he instructs the gathering of believers to directly evangelize the lost. Obviously Jesus is still calling lost sheep into the fold, and he does this through us as his sheep, but this function takes place outstide of the church gathering.
eh?
Other words…the point of a church service isnt evangelism.
I guess your church isn’t growing then.
2 Tim. 4:1-4
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
I agree with Clay. Christ calls us to make disciples. It is a personal charge to spread the Gospel. But Christ’s Body meets together to encourage and prepare each other for that mission. How are we to be prepared to defend the true Gospel in all of its miraculous detail without going deep enough to understand what it really entails? I’ve met plenty of Christians with inch deep knowledge that were not effective at all, and the people I know who have a deep understanding of the Word are passionate in following Christ and spreading God’s Word! Pastors who only preach spiritual milk and deny their congregations the meat of the Gospel lead spiritual infants unprepared to stand on their own in Christ.
I only want 2 say that my experience as a Christian is this. Jesus came 2 me. That is all I will say bout that. Now shortly after that I came 2 a church that I was invited 2 by a friend. Almost immediately I was in ministry (I was taught by the church that this was part of my relationship w/ God). I struggled with guilt pangs all the time because I was not involved in every activity the church had going on . I felt as though I had let God down.
I went 2 that church for 4 years & never heard the Gospel. As a new believer I was not discipled & therefore I had no idea how 2 war spiritually. I was saved. When I let someone know that I felt starved & alone(confessing ones sin to one another is what we should do to hold eachother up as a body right?) I heard sermon after sermon that “if you feel you are not fed go elsewhere”. I cried because I loved my Pastor & I thought I was his sheep. I was starting to fall on one of the cliffs, being bound by guilt & condemnation of the law that was preached without the Gospel. I am still very hurt. God is teaching me & keeping me
but, there is something to be said about discipleship & building a family with other believers.
Now my family & I do not have a church. I still read my bible at home but, we don’t really have anyone. We were let go to wander away. God Himself is wonderful because through it all He has kept us. He Himself will lead us & guide us & I have total faith in Him. I do want to say though this post is wrong. The call of a pastor is to feed Jesus sheep. If you can’t do it then get off the pulpit or rather should I say stage.
Church is now one big entertaining show. The body is left without & scattered. Repent & preach the word of God!! His words not yours
All right, then what do you make of this passage:
Luke 10: 38-41
As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”
“Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”
Although what Martha was doing was good and intended to serve the Lord, Jesus calls sitting and His feet and being “spoon-fed” His word the BETTER thing. (And remember, Mary is already a disciple!) We shouldn’t make going deep into God’s Word and spreading that Word an either/or proposition, especially not when Our Lord so clearly commends this sitting and feeding on His Word.
Also consider this in John 21:15-17
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.” Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you truly love me?” He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.” The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.”
The apostle is here commanded not just to “go and make disciples” but also to FEED those who are already Jesus’ sheep! I don’t think that one can make the argument that it is bad for a pastor to guide people in deeper study of the Bible FROM the Bible- only from the mistaken mindset that too much Bible study will somehow prevent people from evangelizing.
But here’s the bigger issue I have with this post: it assumes that once you have been converted, you are spiritually healthy and do not need a physician. Nothing could be further from the truth! Doesn’t Paul talk about his struggling against sin even after he is not only a Christian, but an apostle? (Romans 7). Because Christians still sin, they still need to be confronted with God’s Word on a regular basis to rebuke their sin, and then reminded of Jesus’ victorious death and resurrection to defeat sin. We all need to depend on the Great Physician until the day we die.
I’m NOT trying to say that evangelism isn’t extremely important- but the necessity of a pastor taking the time to really feed his sheep can’t and shouldn’t be underestimated. Maybe I’m misreading the whole post- forgive me if I am. But I just don’t see it as appropriate to ever discourage people from asking for more and deeper teaching in the Word, even if you are doing it in the process of trying to encourage more evangelism.
The Mormon church grows. Islam grows. That’s not an applicable argument. A ‘church’ filled with goats is bound for nothing but goat-ness, a phenomenon where goats ignore the sheep just in order to attract more goats.
Also, if your churches are going to try to evangelize, please do it with the true gospel.
I’d give anything to worship with 50 sheep than 25,000 goats. Please turn from where you’re headed. You’re killing us out here.
I’m curious here, just to get the conversation straight.
1. What is the purpose of gathering together on a given day of the week as a group? In other words, what is the purpose of the Church service? Discipleship or Evangelism? Both?
2. What is the difference between the content that a lost and a disciple needs to hear?
3. Would you agree that evangelism is the process where one goes from being lost to being saved? Or is evangelism the process one goes from being lost to being a disciple? Are they both processes?
4. How does the world discipline and disciple relate to one another?
Lets agree that we will use the bible as our final authority in the discussion.
I am a member of a church that has no small groups, sings hymns, uses an ancient liturgy and the pastor FEEDS the flock with in depth preaching and teaching that centers on Christ and Him Crucified for our sins. AND we have almost 800 members AND we’re growing like crazy. In fact, we have a significant number of families that have joined our church precisely because of the shallow, banal, culturally vain preaching at their previous ‘purpose-driven’ churches.
In fact, its become so frequent for us to get families visiting our church because they’re sick of the stupid shallow relevant culture shows of their previous churches that we actually have come up with a name for them. We call them “Purpose-Driven Refugees”.
You boyz keep it up. Keep name calling and accusing those who insist that their pastors do what God’s word tells them to do of being selfish and you’ll be growing OUR churches for us.
We actually understand that God commands His Pastors to preach the word 2 Tim. 4:1-4, and feed Christ’s sheep, John 21:17.
Ya’ll have bought a lie and think that Christ calls pastors to be innovative entertaining, change agents / CEOs.
Jesus calls shepherds NOT CEOs to disciple and feed His Flock.
Michael,
I am fully aware of what is happening at YOUR particular church. I’ve been listening to Oak Leafs sermons for almost 2 years.
The Biblical preaching of Oak Leaf is the exception NOT the rule when it comes to Seeker-Driven churches.
This post however, is guilty of passing along the purpose-driven party line and propaganda that pits discipleship against evangelism.
Keep in mind that the church not only survived it thrived and grew LONG before Rick Warren and Bill Hybels brought Peter Drucker’s business, leadership & marketing theories into the church.
How was that possible? Real simple. Well fed mature Christians naturally share their faith out in the world where the live and work. Well fed, well read mature Christians have been and always will be the best evangelists.
If you truly care about reaching the lost then feed and mature the sheep God’s put in your care. People naturally talk about and share the things that are important in they’re lives with other people. Deep Christ-Centered discipleship creates an army of evangelists.
I appreciate your feedback. You mentioned educating the saints about their mission and remind us all that as our love for Christ goes, then it should be natural for us to share our faith. Such education is the heart behind this post.
It focuses on evangelism, and intentionally leaves out other aspects of the faith, including worship and serving the poor. As you know, it’s impossible to cover everything in a single post.
Finally, while I would not agree with everything Rick Warren or Bill Hybles say, I find them both to be strong Christian leaders living our their calling in a Biblical and Godly way. It’s my duty as a leader to learn from all kinds of people.
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Scold my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “… See MoreInsult my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Tell my sheep to go elsewhere for food. “
thanks for your feedback. i think we’ll agree to disagree. i’m going to go ahead and close comments on this post.